Continuing the ongoing series of interviews with creative artists working on various aspects of movie and TV productions, it is my pleasure to welcome Jacinta Leong. In this interview, she talks the role of production design and the bigger changes in the art department in the last few decades, key ingredients to longevity in the industry, and experiencing stories on the big screen. Between all these and more, Jacinta takes a deeper look into her work on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”.

Kirill: Please tell us about yourself and what drew you into the world of art department and production design.

Jacinta: I am a film production designer. The production designer is responsible for everything that is on the screen that you see during a film, except for costumes and the actors.

I was drawn into this world step by step. When I was twelve, I wanted to be a performer on stage, whether it be with music or acting. Together with my sisters I went to audition for a stage play called “The King and I”. The set designer, Lindy Whistler, was a qualified architect. I was always interested in drawing buildings, and I thought that if I want to turn up to auditions, I could also study architecture to become a set designer and have a couple of options.

When I turned seventeen, I went to the Queensland University of Technology. In my final year there, I found myself being drawn more to film than theatre. My final year thesis was on set design for film and television, because there is such a crossover between architecture and set design. Many of the principles are the same. Most of the set designers for theatre were architects, because often the backdrops were of a city or a street. That’s how I got drawn into it.

After I finished the course, I started sending my CV out to production designers, art directors and studios. Then I was lucky enough to land a job at the movie studios in Queensland. I also wrote to the production designer Henry Bumstead in the ’90s, asking if I could do some work for him. I joined his art department in the States to work as an intern on a film called “The Stars Fell on Henrietta”, and I was totally hooked by then. That was in the early ’90s, and I haven’t stopped since.

Conceptual art (top) and final still (bottom) of ladders and platform on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

Kirill: Looking at these 30 years in the industry, what are the bigger changes in how these stories are made from the perspective of the art department?

Jacinta: From the perspective of production design, the principles of designing have not changed. It’s more about the process of creating artwork and drawings to be built, and the way of conveying that to everyone who needs to know what it’s going to look like – be it the director, the cinematographer, or anybody else.

Back in high school I had a subject called geometrical drawing and perspective. We used T-squares, set squares, lead pencils, and erasers. Then, when I was studying for my university degree, I started working in an architectural firm, and they were using AutoCAD. My experience using AutoCAD has been enjoyable, but I’m very glad to have had the lead pencil background.

Going back to film production design, sets were drawn and drafted using pencil and T-square. When I was on “The Stars Fell on Henrietta”, Mr. Bumstead was there with his T-square lead pencils and drawing board. So that’s one change – going from lead pencil drawings to computer drawing, and the 3D aspect of it as well.

The second one is how research has changed with the digital age of the Internet. When I was starting, a production designer would turn up with tubs full of books to bring into the art department. I still do that now. I’ve got some books, and I’ll put post-it notes on and tag pages and add that to the reference packages. But most people do research online.

Design schematics and construction details of ladders and platform on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

Kirill: Getting to “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, how did it start for you? How did it find its way to you, or maybe how did you find your way to it?

Jacinta: In 2023 I was introduced to the directors, Peter and Michael Spierig. I worked with them on a project which didn’t end up being made. But because we had met on that one, the following year they contacted me to work on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”. It came up quite quickly, and I was only too happy to have the opportunity to work with them on a film that went ahead. I like to travel, so going to Thailand was a great adventure.

Kirill: Starting with the very first set that we see in the movie, which is the house where Shiloh’s sister Jax lives. How did you approach creating that environment?

Jacinta: For economical reasons, if you find a location, that is a good start because it’s already existing. In Thailand, there was a movie house which had been used for another series. It was a two-story interior and exterior, and I would say that the actors did most of the work there to make you believe it’s happening in the USA. You believe they were in the USA because of who they are. We dressed it with pizza boxes, some furniture pieces, and some artwork on the wall. It was quite dimly lit in the background, and that created a morning atmosphere. We didn’t see that much of it. There were scripted items like the table in the kitchen where they’re sitting at, and the lounge room as well.

Building the High Spirits tourist bar on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

Kirill: Then they move to the tourist camp when they get to Thailand. Was that something that existed or was that something that you built?

Jacinta: We built that from scratch. Jax and Luce appear when they walk through some jungle-ish environment, and they hear music, and then they see this bar for tourists who want to climb Mount Kwan. It didn’t exist. We built that from scratch on a plot of land near a lake within a national park. It was the perfect setting.

One of the design elements was to make use of that lake and have 360-degree views around. Then you have a locker space for them to get their harnesses. And then you have the lodge that you see them in, and we built that in another area of the park. I’m sure the locations team were looking for an isolated bar, but you wouldn’t find something that would be suitable for these backpackers and tourists with the flexibility to shoot it in day and night with a film crew. That’s how we ended up building the set to get the shots that we wanted.

Kirill: When they get to the set of the fictitious Mount Kwan, where was that shot, what existed there, and what did you add?

Jacinta: Peter and Michael wanted the height for the planks because we wanted to look up to them in their perilous positions. You can only go so high before it becomes quite time-consuming to shoot. So we set planks at a maximum of about six meters off the ground, because the camera cranes could only reach so far. That was the best way to achieve those shots.

What existed in the first place was a quarry about 2.5 hours drive from Bangkok. We had a rock climbing expert assess the quarry walls for safety and strength. Originally we thought that we may have to put planks up not into the wall, but actually support them from the ground with scaffolding – and then we’d have to have VFX erase those supports digitally. But thankfully, after the testing it was found that we would drill into those rock faces safely and place the planks on the brackets that we put in.

Conceptual art (top) and final still (bottom) of Devil’s Elbow on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

Kirill: Without too many spoilers beyond the movie trailer, the story spends a lot of time in the Devil’s Elbow. What was the setup you envisioned for building the structure there and how much work went into it?

Jacinta: The vision was to have the two climbers stranded at an extreme height. And we wanted the camera to shoot it in a way that places the audiences directly into that experience through immersive filmmaking.

The script called for it to have a huge, breathtaking view the first time they see it. We needed to have them at that height and at that sharp angle, and that feature didn’t exist at the quarry. That’s why we built it. There’s so much other action there that demanded a set build as well. You see it in the trailers when they’re hanging with their arms from those rungs, or they’re stepping and standing on them.

It was built using scaffolding and polystyrene in that initial sharp arrowhead shape. It was built in a workshop in a flat area of ground where they had room, and then it was transported to site and assembled using a crane.

Design schematics of Devil’s Elbow on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

Kirill: The last big piece is the sky bridge closer to the end of the movie. How much of it is real, and how much is the visual effects or set extensions?

Jacinta: The length of the bridge, the rock face that they start in to get to that bridge, and the platform at the end – they were all real. As Michael and Peter were determined to use the natural light and landscape of that area in Thailand, it was built at that same quarry with the sun setting on that side. It was engineered as well. It had to be safe for three actors to walk across – plus camera crew, makeup, stunts – all on that platform.

We had several versions of that bridge. At one point it was a rigid timber bridge to be in keeping with the planks. We were looking at so many bridges that are high up around the world. And then one of the things Michael said was that it could be a tight rope. I looked at steel wire cables together with planks to have it consistent with that world. That was a different kind of plank. It was one that would move and sway. It was broken down and dilapidated. And, again, we were pushing that fear and making it feel that you wouldn’t step on it.

Building process of Devil’s Elbow on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

Kirill: Do you want people to go and see it on the biggest screen possible? Do you want people to go and see it in the movie theater?

Jacinta: I would love the audience to go and see “Fall 2: Deadpoint” in the movie theater. The experience is worlds apart from watching it on TV at home. It’ll be a more immersive experience, and the sound will really place you there as well. The scenery in Thailand deserves the big screen. I hope the audience enjoys having their buttons pushed.

Kirill: What are the key ingredients to longevity in your field?

Jacinta: The key to longevity in this field is that you have to really enjoy it. I don’t know if it’s talent, skill, or a willingness to be involved. But you really must want to be working on films to have that longevity.

Before and after the completed construction of Devil’s Elbow on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

Kirill: What was your favorite dish or food that you had in Thailand while you were working on this movie?

Jacinta: I’m from Australia, and Thai cuisine has a lot of spicy food. There were a couple of occasions I would line up to the food that they had, and then the person in control of the food would say “Oh, put this spicy dish away, have that plain rice over there” [laughs]. I’m going to say it was vegetarian Thai fried rice.

Constructed set (top) and final still (bottom) of walking planks on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

Constructed set (top) and final still (bottom) of the bridge to peak of Mount Kwan on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

Building process of the aircraft cabin on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.

And here I’d to thank Jacinta Leong for sharing her time with me to talk about the art and craft of production design, and for sharing the supporting materials. I also want to thank Jackson Vickery for making this interview happen. “Fall 2: Deadpoint” is playing in theaters now. Finally, if you want to know more about how films and TV shows are made, click here for additional in-depth interviews in this series.

Among the many memorable sets on “Stranger Things”, one stood out in particular during the show’s final season – Holly Wheeler’s bedroom. In our earlier interview, the show’s set decorator Jess Royal says this:

Then we have Holly’s room. I always loved the floral Marimekko wallpapers that you see in old references and magazines from the late ’70s to early ’80s. It was so exciting to use it there, as it ended up being my dream bedroom that I never had as a kid. It also is such a hard contrast with what happens in that bedroom. You see this happy bright colorful room, and then all of a sudden a monster is coming through the ceiling and trying to steal her. It’s that fun “Stranger Things” contrast.

And now it’s my absolute delight to share more of what went into decorating that bedroom, with many thanks to Jess for sharing additional imagery.

We start with the moodboards, bringing together images, colors, textures and design to inform the overall tone and style of the bedroom:

Moodboards for Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

Moodboards for Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

Moodboards for Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

Moodboards for Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

Moodboards for Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

Moodboards for Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

We continue to the photos of the decorated set:

On the set of Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

On the set of Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

On the set of Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

On the set of Holly’s bedroom in “Stranger Things”, courtesy of Jess Royal.

And then to the final stills in the show:

And here, again, I want to thank Jess Royal for sharing these materials. All seasons of “Stranger Things” are streaming on Netflix. Finally, if you want to know more about how films and TV shows are made, click here for additional in-depth interviews in this series.

Continuing the ongoing series of interviews with creative artists working on various aspects of movie and episodic productions, it is my pleasure to welcome Jeanie Bacharach. Jeanie is a triple Emmy Award winner for her work on “The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel” and “The Bear”, and among her many other credits are “Ally McBeal”, “The Dropout”, “Black Mirror”, “Lucky”, “Brothers & Sisters” and “Nashville”. In this interview, Julie takes a deep dive into her Emmy-nominated work on the second season of “Beef”.

Kirill: Please tell us about yourself and the path that took you to where you are today.

Jeanie: I started out as an actress, very briefly, in New York. Then I was a reader for auditions, and it opened me up to the other side of the industry and casting. I found that quite fascinating, and still creative to this day. That was my start in casting in New York where I worked primarily in theater. Later on my husband and I moved out here to Los Angeles, and made my way mostly in television. That’s been the main focus of my casting career.

Kirill: What are the bigger misunderstandings or misconceptions about the role of the casting director, and what goes into it?

Jeanie: People don’t quite understand what we’re doing behind the scenes. So much of it is about personal taste, and what you respond to in an actor and in their work. The wonderful thing about it is it’s subjective. What I might respond to in an actor, someone else might not, and vice versa. I try to tell young actors to always keep that in mind. Whatever feedback you’re getting is coming from one person’s experience or perception.

Taste is a key point. People don’t realize that there’s a collaborative aspect of it. We are there at the very beginning, often before maybe even a director is on. We’re trying to take the writer’s vision and bring it to life. But part of our job is to try to expand whatever that idea may be. When they were writing it, they may have thought a specific way. But what’s so fun and maybe not as understood about what we do is that we then try to take that and stretch it as much as we can while still serving the piece and the character. You can’t become arbitrary and have it at the detriment of the story you’re telling.

Then, you’re working behind the scenes to set actors up to succeed as best possible. Sometimes that means finding a piece of film on them that other people may not have seen that can help a director or writer to see their work in a different light.

It’s so collaborative, and you’re there from the beginning. One way to see it is that you give birth to the project, and then it’s up to the rest of the creative team to go from there.

(L to R) Charles Melton as Austin Davis, Cailee Spaeny as Ashley Miller, Carey Mulligan as Lindsay Crane-Martin, Oscar Isaac as Josh Martin in episode 202 of Beef. Courtesy of Netflix.

Kirill: Did it feel that the recognition of your craft at the Oscars was overdue?

Jeanie: Certainly, as every other part of the creative process has been recognized up to this point. It was way overdue and very exciting. I don’t quite understand what took so long, but I’m so glad we’re there.

Kirill: What are the bigger differences between the feature film world and the episodic productions, and why do you mostly stay in the episodic world?

Jeanie: When I first started in television, there wasn’t as much streaming and cable. It was pretty much all network TV. As streaming and cable came into being. and there started to be the crossover of feature people – directors and writers and actors – into television and back and forth, the differences starting getting smaller.

The biggest difference is we have to work much faster in television than in feature films, because the schedule is so different. Once you get into casting a series, you have anywhere from eight to ten days to cast an episode, whereas in feature films you generally have months of preparation.
Another thing about casting in television is that since you don’t have that much time, you need to know that actors are going to be able to deliver in the moment. And yet another one is that no matter if you’re casting for a long term series or for a limited one, it can be eight or ten or twelve hours of screen time. You need to find actors that people are going to invest in and want to watch over a period of time. On a feature film you’re holding a much bigger screen, but for a relatively shorter period of time.

You’re looking at a longer period of time when you are casting for a series. You have a deeper development of the character in a series. A feature film may cover a large period of time or a shorter period of time, but in television, more often than not, where your character starts and where it ends can be very different. You need to know that the actor can carry all of those beats and story points over multiple episodes and/or seasons.

(L to R) Seoyeon Jang as Eunice, Charles Melton as Austin Davis, Cailee Spaeny as Ashley Miller in episode 203 of Beef. Courtesy of Netflix.

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Continuing the ongoing series of interviews with creative artists working on various aspects of movie and episodic productions, it is my pleasure to welcome Olga Mill. In this interview, she talks about her journey into the world of costume design, key ingredients to longevity in the industry, and her thoughts on generative AI. Between all these and more, Olga dives deep into her Emmy-nominated work on the second season of “Beef”.

Olga Mill on the sets of “Beef”.

Kirill: Please tell us about yourself and the path that took you to where you are today.

Olga: I knew I wanted to do what I do today pretty early on. My family moved to New York from the Ukraine when I was five. They would take us to the theater all the time, and I also went into community theater acting programs. Later on I went to a performing arts high school in New York. The acting part of it didn’t resonate with me, but I did like the parts about making your own sets and costumes.

I remember walking home from school one day and thinking that I could be a costume designer. The more I thought about it, the more it looked like it would let me out of some of the acting stuff that didn’t resonate, and also that it appealed to a nerdier research part of myself. It also felt more practical in a way. That’s when my path started, back in high school.

It took a long time to feel confident enough to want to be in the designer role. In the film industry, if your family’s not in it, it can feel so out of reach. So at first I was thinking that I would be happy if I could just work in a costume shop. And then I wanted to be an assistant. And only when I went to graduate school at NYU that I felt ready to go for the head of department role.

Costume design of “Beef” by Olga Mill. Courtesy of Netflix.

Kirill: What are the misconceptions or misunderstandings about what costume design is?

Olga: The first one is that a lot of people assume that I know how to sew. It’s really important to understand the construction and design because I’m talking to tailors. But left to my own devices, it’s a skill that I don’t have. I respect it a lot, but I certainly wouldn’t be able to do it myself.

The second misconception is putting costume design in with fashion. Fashion is its own lane that I have so much respect for, but that’s not where the meat of my knowledge is. As a costume designer, you are driven by the script and the characters and not the aesthetics of fashion. I don’t mean to downplay fashion, but these are two independent avenues that often get intertwined. They are different skill sets.

Kirill: Getting to “Beef”, how did you find your way to it, or perhaps how did it find its way to you?

Olga: I feel that we met each other halfway. I was a big fan of season one, and I had worked with the production designer Grace Yun several times in the past. I got the script for the second season through my agent, and I don’t know if it was through Grace or through my past work with A24.

I met Sonny [Lee Sun Jin, the creator of the show] for a coffee, and he laid out his thoughts for season two. It’s an anthology series, and it was interesting for me because you can start from scratch with new characters. I put together some visuals and sent him, and then we went from there.

Costume sketches for “Beef”, courtesy of Olga Mill and Netflix. Left to right – Ashley, Austin, Ashley.

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