Continuing the ongoing series of interviews with creative artists working on various aspects of movie and TV productions, it is my pleasure to welcome Aron Meinhardt. In this interview, he talks the role of cinematography, the transition of the industry from film to digital and his love for film as medium, advances in LED lights, and his thoughts on generative AI. Between all these and more, Aron takes a deep dive into his work on the recently released “I Live Here Now”.
Aron Meinhardt during the production of “I Live Here Now”, photography by Robert MacCready.
Kirill: Please tell us about yourself and the path that took you to where you are today.
Aron: I came to film pretty late. I grew up in rural Vermont, and the idea of making movies on any professional level was definitely not on my radar. I would make films with friends, but honestly, they were more interested in it than I was. I’d help out with their movies, and make some of my own, and do little stop motion animations, and other fun stuff.
In high school I was interested in philosophy and comparative religions, and I thought that I would go to college for that and probably have an academic career – and suddenly I lost interest in all of that. As a teenager, I was looking for personal answers, and once I found those answers for myself, it wasn’t clear to me what I was going to do. During my last year at high school they offered a filmmaking elective, and I loved it.
I read Robert Rodriguez’s “Rebel Without a Crew” which made it all feel possible – compared to a lot of different directors that make it sound like they’re the only ones who can do this. His book talked about how anybody can do this, and made it so accessible. I took a year off and took some filmmaking and writing classes at the community college, and then I enrolled in a small film school in Vermont called Burlington College that doesn’t exist anymore. At that point I wasn’t sure if I wanted to write or direct or edit or what not. I knew it was creative, but I went hard learning to become technical because it’s such a technical industry. We didn’t have a lot of money when I was growing up, and I knew that I needed a bankable skill, and by being technical you can make sure people rely on you for the technical expertise.
I fell in love with camera. For me it’s the perfect marriage of creativity and technicality and art and science. I love the interaction between having these creative ideas and figuring out how to execute them in the physical world. I never looked back, and it’s camera for me.
Behind the scenes of “I Live Here Now”, photography by Robert MacCready, courtesy of Aron Meinhardt
Kirill: Jumping a little bit forward into the movie, but also staying in the more general area of cinematography, would you say that your generation is digital natives? How hard is it to fight to make a film on film?
Aron: It’s interesting, because it’s having such a resurgence, particularly among my generation. I was probably one of the last groups of filmmakers that shot film in college. Film has been phased out of most film school departments, and people don’t get exposed to it as much.
I owe a lot to digital. I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t have access to digital cameras. Kodak and different labs are doing a lot to support filmmakers. Panavision have been incredible allies. The people who are passionate about film are excited to teach and share and collaborate. If you know what you’re doing, it’s not that expensive. Maybe for shorter projects the ratio becomes different.
What I love about film is its capacity to unite all the departments. We’re all trying to get it on take one. Some people use the first three takes as rehearsals when they know you’re doing 10-15 takes of every shot. So film enforces a discipline that makes sets more efficient, and therefore makes them cheaper.
There are people in my generation who are intimidated by it. I don’t think they should be. And I know plenty of cinematographers in their twenties who are buying broken Bolex cameras on eBay, figuring out how to fix them, and doing incredible work. I live in Los Angeles and we have ready access to laboratories. That’s a privilege, but you can mail it. Going to film school in Vermont, we had to ship it to a lab, and that lab closed, so we had to find a different lab. It would take a week or two for you to see the footage.
I remember these moments of group terror [laughs] where you’re all sitting and watching it back. Everybody would be seeing their footage for the first time. Sometimes it was all black. Sometimes it was all white. Sometimes it was all out of focus, or there was the registration issue and the images were all over the place. And sometimes it was incredibly breathtaking and magical. That’s a good terror to feel, as it keeps us honest and humble.
Behind the scenes of “I Live Here Now”, photography by Thaïs Castralli, courtesy of Aron Meinhardt
Kirill: What are the bigger misconceptions or misunderstandings of what you do?
Aron: It can be a misconception that a cinematographer is primarily a technical position, that you’re only metering and getting exposure and figuring out lighting. Sometimes people don’t understand the amount of storytelling that is happening, and the amount of collaboration you have with the other departments. That is the most exciting thing about what I do – figure out the arc, and understand that not every shot can be the most beautiful shot in the movie, and that these things have to exist for a certain emotional and dramatic purpose, and not just an aesthetic one.
Digital cameras are so light sensitive, and sometimes it feels like we don’t even need lighting when you can crank the ISO to 128,000 and denoise it later. But lighting is not a device for exposure. It’s a storytelling device. It’s a blend of art and science. People can either fall too far on the science part or too far on the art part.
Ultimately, a lot of my job is leadership, and personality management, and trying to figure out how to effectively communicate with teams. There’s a lot of management when you’re leading three departments each with their own department head. That has been my biggest learning curve in the last eight years. I know how a camera works. I know how I like to light. I know these creative components of it. However, I’m also responsible for people. How can I manage that in an effective and ethical way?
Behind the scenes of “I Live Here Now”, photography by Thaïs Castralli, courtesy of Aron Meinhardt
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Continuing the ongoing series of interviews with creative artists working on various aspects of movie and TV productions, it is my delight to welcome back Amy Williams. In this interview, she talks about experiencing stories on the big screen, her thoughts about generative AI, and key ingredients to longevity in the industry. Between all these and more, Amy takes a deep dive into her work on the much anticipated “Verity” that is opening in theaters this week.
Kirill: We did our first interview back in February 2020, about a month before everything was shut down. How were the last six years for you?
Amy: That’s wild, an interview just before Covid. It’s been great. Covid was definitely a weird period to be in this industry and making things. After we spoke, I began prep for “Master of None” season three, working in London. When the pandemic hit, we had to stop production immediately. It was the most abrupt halt to a production. My producer called me and said that I had to get on a plane because “they might be shutting the borders down. We need to send you home.” It was heartbreaking because I’ve worked on all seasons of “Master of None” and we wanted to make this special and unique season in London.
Luckily, we were able to resume later in August. The period in between provided a lot of opportunity to connect with other production designers, to talk about the craft, and to reflect on the craft instead of jumping from one job to the next.
It definitely influenced things, and not only the way studios approach filmmaking. We have Zoom meetings nonstop, and less is in person. We have tighter timelines than we once did and often tighter budgets. A lot of travel has been involved due to tax incentives and credits. I’ve worked since then in London, in Budapest, in Taiwan, in Atlanta and in other parts of the country. I’m New York based, and New York State has a great tax incentive and lots of filming is coming here. It’s quite busy.
From the Pinboard production design moodboards of “Verity”, courtesy of Amy Williams and Amazon MGM Studios.
From the Pinboard production design moodboards of “Verity”, courtesy of Amy Williams and Amazon MGM Studios.
Kirill: How did “Verity” start for you? How did you find your way to it, or maybe how did it find its way to you?
Amy: It started way back in 2020. I did an Apple series with Anne Hathaway called “WeCrashed”. I had an amazing experience on that, collaborating with her on her character sets and her ideas and thoughts about the narrative. She was very supportive and collaborative during that process. And then a year or two later, she had signed out to do a film called “The Idea of You” that Michael Showalter was directing. I had met him previously in another interview for a different project, but she was a producer on the film, and she recommended me to work with Michael.
Working with Michael Showalter was also an incredible collaboration. We all found our team, and the three of us did “The Idea of You” together. After that, Michael had a film called “Oh. What. Fun.” and I came on to do that as well, along with the same script supervisor, DP, still photographer, Set medic and team. Then “Verity” came up and Michael called me. I was attached to another project at the time, but knowing that Michael and Anne were both a part of this project, I couldn’t not do it. I had to figure something out.
Michael’s assistant sent me a photo of the house that they were considering, when I was still unsure of my schedule. As soon as I saw the location, that was the final straw. I couldn’t not do this movie. The house is an incredible inspiration, and the interiors are a dream. It was a no-brainer to get to work with people that I genuinely love and with people whose genius I’m inspired by.
From the 1st Dibs production design listings of “Verity”, courtesy of Amy Williams and Amazon MGM Studios.
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Continuing the ongoing series of interviews with creative artists working on various aspects of movie and TV productions, it is my pleasure to welcome Nick Bassett. In this interview, he talks the role of production design and the bigger changes in the art department in the last few decades, key ingredients to longevity in the industry, experiencing stories on the big screen, and the enduring appeal of the horror genre. Between all these and more, Nick takes a deep dive into his work on “Insidious: Out Of The Further”.
Kirill: Please tell us about yourself and the path that took you to where you are today.
Nick: I was always quite good at art from a young age. Later on I went to an all-boys high school, and while I did fine there, their art department was pretty terrible. I ended up switching to a different high school, and their art department was great. They had an option to take it as two subjects, which was a rare occurrence for local high schools.
That was a memorable year for me, and from there I decided to do either fine arts or a design school. I chose an industrial design school, and in some ways I looked at that with a bit of regret. It’s such a luxury to be able to do pure art and indulge in that. For some reason, there was a slightly more cautious side of me that advised that I should go down a path of something that may lead to a career, rather than just a freelance artist. About 2.5 years into the 4 year program I decided it wasn’t for me. While I liked it overall, I just wasn’t learning much. I felt a need to go and do something practical.
One of the part time tutors at the school was designing furniture, making jewelry and other bespoke things. He was a trained jeweler, but not a trained furniture designer, and that triggered my imagination that there is a world where you can just go out and do this thing. I worked with him for a while and learned about jewelry, welding, metal casting and other practical things. Along the way there was a small opportunity to make props. That was my first introduction to the world of TV commercials, and from there through word of mouth I discovered the existence of the film industry.
I always wanted to do my own design and my own products. I might have had lofty ideas of being like Philippe Starck, some superstar designer [laughs]. Everyone at design school thinks they’re going to be the next big thing, and that’s kind of mad to think when you have so much global competition.
I probably had a few opportunities where I could get into the film industry. One was through TV commercials, and the other was where I’ve met people who are making props in the old fashioned way. They make fake giant ice creams and closeups of pouring fake chocolate for beautiful Cadbury ads. It’s really detailed work and they were working at such a precision level.
And then this one weekend I was up at my family home, and this red Ford Mustang pulled up outside my mum’s house. I look outside, and I see a camera crew, and they were making an episode of the TV show called “High Tide”. People were wearing Hawaiian shirts, as that episode was supposed to be set in Hawaii. That moment was a trigger for me, as it looked so fun. My partner at the time, who is my wife now, had been offered a running job on that show, and while she turned it down, she asked me if I wanted to take it. That was it, and I thank her for it.
It gave me the very bottom rung as an art department runner – with the potential that you could see that you could move all the way up to doing production design. The head people in that art department were trained architects, and that was so interesting. I could see a path where it wasn’t going to be a dead end.
I then worked my way all the way through, and I’ve been doing this now for 30+ years. I went from running to set dressing to standby working on the floor of the set. And then back into the art department, after earning my way back through – and always doing design projects on my own on the side. That was all in New Zealand. The industry was quite new there. There’s always been a film and TV industry, but it was very small, and you had these American projects coming in. Everyone was putting on American accents for these superstar actors [laughs]. It was a major trigger to your imagination to work on a detective show set in California or Hawaii or some other place that wasn’t local.
It took about 8 years for me to find my way to the film industry. I was 17 when I went to design school, about 21 when I first heard about this industry, and 25 when I realized that it was a career that you could stick with. There’s no straight path in the film industry. It’s one of those jobs with no promises or guarantees.
On the sets of “Insidious: Out Of The Further”, courtesy of Nick Bassett and Sony Pictures.
Kirill: As you look at these 30 years that you’ve been doing this, you’ve probably seen quite a few changes in and around the art department. What would you say are the bigger changes?
Nick: When I was starting out, everything was hand drawn, and now it’s all in 3D computer programs. On some of the smaller shows back then it was just sketches and no working drawings [laughs]. The scale of every movie is different, but the basic practice now is a lot more. We’re having to document what we do a lot more and sell the concept, so we can share it with other departments.
The best time you’ll ever have is when you start in the film industry because you don’t know anything. When you know more, it gets harder, because now you realize what you didn’t know. I imagine there’s very few people who feel like experts in our industry, because there’s so much to learn all the time and no two projects are the same. You’re always learning, and you’re always feeling like there’s more to learn.
We have a better understanding of the importance of color, of how the costume works with the backdrop, and how all departments interlace. I often work on horror shows, and you have so many departments that have to mesh together. It’s a really big responsibility to communicate clearly and to leave a documented trail of what we’ve decided to do to prevent surprises on the day. Our industry in New Zealand has seen a massive change since back then. We learned from overseas crews that were coming in, and now in New Zealand you see a much more professional department that takes it seriously.
It’s a competitive industry, and one that has matured quite a bit. A lot of people want to be in it. A lot of countries are competing for work. So everyone needs to be really good at what they’re doing. You can’t relax in it too much.
Technology is coming in more and more, but it’s always been there. Everyone has always been progressing. I started back in the days of film, and then digital started coming in, and we were learning how digital cameras are different from film cameras. They were much cleaner, and they were picking up detail that we wouldn’t have noticed before. That was a long time ago now, but it’s just another example of how you’re constantly training your brain to cope with technology changes.
Now we’re in a much faster tracked prep period. Our pre-production period is very quick now. It’s not enough to be good at it. You also have to be fast and efficient, and do work with fewer people. There’s nothing stable about it. It keeps evolving. I like to embrace technology as much as possible. One thing I do is I stay with the basics. I try not to jump ahead of myself. Technology can quickly get you something that looks finished and resolved, all the while you still have to go through the creative stages.
On the sets of “Insidious: Out Of The Further”, courtesy of Nick Bassett and Sony Pictures.
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Continuing the ongoing series of interviews with creative artists working on various aspects of movie and TV productions, it is my pleasure to welcome Jacinta Leong. In this interview, she talks the role of production design and the bigger changes in the art department in the last few decades, key ingredients to longevity in the industry, and experiencing stories on the big screen. Between all these and more, Jacinta takes a deeper look into her work on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”.
Kirill: Please tell us about yourself and what drew you into the world of art department and production design.
Jacinta: I am a film production designer. The production designer is responsible for everything that is on the screen that you see during a film, except for costumes and the actors.
I was drawn into this world step by step. When I was twelve, I wanted to be a performer on stage, whether it be with music or acting. Together with my sisters I went to audition for a stage play called “The King and I”. The set designer, Lindy Whistler, was a qualified architect. I was always interested in drawing buildings, and I thought that if I want to turn up to auditions, I could also study architecture to become a set designer and have a couple of options.
When I turned seventeen, I went to the Queensland University of Technology. In my final year there, I found myself being drawn more to film than theatre. My final year thesis was on set design for film and television, because there is such a crossover between architecture and set design. Many of the principles are the same. Most of the set designers for theatre were architects, because often the backdrops were of a city or a street. That’s how I got drawn into it.
After I finished the course, I started sending my CV out to production designers, art directors and studios. Then I was lucky enough to land a job at the movie studios in Queensland. I also wrote to the production designer Henry Bumstead in the ’90s, asking if I could do some work for him. I joined his art department in the States to work as an intern on a film called “The Stars Fell on Henrietta”, and I was totally hooked by then. That was in the early ’90s, and I haven’t stopped since.
Conceptual art (top) and final still (bottom) of ladders and platform on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
Kirill: Looking at these 30 years in the industry, what are the bigger changes in how these stories are made from the perspective of the art department?
Jacinta: From the perspective of production design, the principles of designing have not changed. It’s more about the process of creating artwork and drawings to be built, and the way of conveying that to everyone who needs to know what it’s going to look like – be it the director, the cinematographer, or anybody else.
Back in high school I had a subject called geometrical drawing and perspective. We used T-squares, set squares, lead pencils, and erasers. Then, when I was studying for my university degree, I started working in an architectural firm, and they were using AutoCAD. My experience using AutoCAD has been enjoyable, but I’m very glad to have had the lead pencil background.
Going back to film production design, sets were drawn and drafted using pencil and T-square. When I was on “The Stars Fell on Henrietta”, Mr. Bumstead was there with his T-square lead pencils and drawing board. So that’s one change – going from lead pencil drawings to computer drawing, and the 3D aspect of it as well.
The second one is how research has changed with the digital age of the Internet. When I was starting, a production designer would turn up with tubs full of books to bring into the art department. I still do that now. I’ve got some books, and I’ll put post-it notes on and tag pages and add that to the reference packages. But most people do research online.
Design schematics and construction details of ladders and platform on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
Kirill: Getting to “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, how did it start for you? How did it find its way to you, or maybe how did you find your way to it?
Jacinta: In 2023 I was introduced to the directors, Peter and Michael Spierig. I worked with them on a project which didn’t end up being made. But because we had met on that one, the following year they contacted me to work on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”. It came up quite quickly, and I was only too happy to have the opportunity to work with them on a film that went ahead. I like to travel, so going to Thailand was a great adventure.
Kirill: Starting with the very first set that we see in the movie, which is the house where Shiloh’s sister Jax lives. How did you approach creating that environment?
Jacinta: For economical reasons, if you find a location, that is a good start because it’s already existing. In Thailand, there was a movie house which had been used for another series. It was a two-story interior and exterior, and I would say that the actors did most of the work there to make you believe it’s happening in the USA. You believe they were in the USA because of who they are. We dressed it with pizza boxes, some furniture pieces, and some artwork on the wall. It was quite dimly lit in the background, and that created a morning atmosphere. We didn’t see that much of it. There were scripted items like the table in the kitchen where they’re sitting at, and the lounge room as well.
Building the High Spirits tourist bar on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
Kirill: Then they move to the tourist camp when they get to Thailand. Was that something that existed or was that something that you built?
Jacinta: We built that from scratch. Jax and Luce appear when they walk through some jungle-ish environment, and they hear music, and then they see this bar for tourists who want to climb Mount Kwan. It didn’t exist. We built that from scratch on a plot of land near a lake within a national park. It was the perfect setting.
One of the design elements was to make use of that lake and have 360-degree views around. Then you have a locker space for them to get their harnesses. And then you have the lodge that you see them in, and we built that in another area of the park. I’m sure the locations team were looking for an isolated bar, but you wouldn’t find something that would be suitable for these backpackers and tourists with the flexibility to shoot it in day and night with a film crew. That’s how we ended up building the set to get the shots that we wanted.
Kirill: When they get to the set of the fictitious Mount Kwan, where was that shot, what existed there, and what did you add?
Jacinta: Peter and Michael wanted the height for the planks because we wanted to look up to them in their perilous positions. You can only go so high before it becomes quite time-consuming to shoot. So we set planks at a maximum of about six meters off the ground, because the camera cranes could only reach so far. That was the best way to achieve those shots.
What existed in the first place was a quarry about 2.5 hours drive from Bangkok. We had a rock climbing expert assess the quarry walls for safety and strength. Originally we thought that we may have to put planks up not into the wall, but actually support them from the ground with scaffolding – and then we’d have to have VFX erase those supports digitally. But thankfully, after the testing it was found that we would drill into those rock faces safely and place the planks on the brackets that we put in.
Conceptual art (top) and final still (bottom) of Devil’s Elbow on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
Kirill: Without too many spoilers beyond the movie trailer, the story spends a lot of time in the Devil’s Elbow. What was the setup you envisioned for building the structure there and how much work went into it?
Jacinta: The vision was to have the two climbers stranded at an extreme height. And we wanted the camera to shoot it in a way that places the audiences directly into that experience through immersive filmmaking.
The script called for it to have a huge, breathtaking view the first time they see it. We needed to have them at that height and at that sharp angle, and that feature didn’t exist at the quarry. That’s why we built it. There’s so much other action there that demanded a set build as well. You see it in the trailers when they’re hanging with their arms from those rungs, or they’re stepping and standing on them.
It was built using scaffolding and polystyrene in that initial sharp arrowhead shape. It was built in a workshop in a flat area of ground where they had room, and then it was transported to site and assembled using a crane.
Design schematics of Devil’s Elbow on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
Kirill: The last big piece is the sky bridge closer to the end of the movie. How much of it is real, and how much is the visual effects or set extensions?
Jacinta: The length of the bridge, the rock face that they start in to get to that bridge, and the platform at the end – they were all real. As Michael and Peter were determined to use the natural light and landscape of that area in Thailand, it was built at that same quarry with the sun setting on that side. It was engineered as well. It had to be safe for three actors to walk across – plus camera crew, makeup, stunts – all on that platform.
We had several versions of that bridge. At one point it was a rigid timber bridge to be in keeping with the planks. We were looking at so many bridges that are high up around the world. And then one of the things Michael said was that it could be a tight rope. I looked at steel wire cables together with planks to have it consistent with that world. That was a different kind of plank. It was one that would move and sway. It was broken down and dilapidated. And, again, we were pushing that fear and making it feel that you wouldn’t step on it.
Building process of Devil’s Elbow on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
Kirill: Do you want people to go and see it on the biggest screen possible? Do you want people to go and see it in the movie theater?
Jacinta: I would love the audience to go and see “Fall 2: Deadpoint” in the movie theater. The experience is worlds apart from watching it on TV at home. It’ll be a more immersive experience, and the sound will really place you there as well. The scenery in Thailand deserves the big screen. I hope the audience enjoys having their buttons pushed.
Kirill: What are the key ingredients to longevity in your field?
Jacinta: The key to longevity in this field is that you have to really enjoy it. I don’t know if it’s talent, skill, or a willingness to be involved. But you really must want to be working on films to have that longevity.
Before and after the completed construction of Devil’s Elbow on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
Kirill: What was your favorite dish or food that you had in Thailand while you were working on this movie?
Jacinta: I’m from Australia, and Thai cuisine has a lot of spicy food. There were a couple of occasions I would line up to the food that they had, and then the person in control of the food would say “Oh, put this spicy dish away, have that plain rice over there” [laughs]. I’m going to say it was vegetarian Thai fried rice.
Constructed set (top) and final still (bottom) of walking planks on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
Constructed set (top) and final still (bottom) of the bridge to peak of Mount Kwan on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
Building process of the aircraft cabin on “Fall 2: Deadpoint”, courtesy of Jacinta Leong.
And here I’d to thank Jacinta Leong for sharing her time with me to talk about the art and craft of production design, and for sharing the supporting materials. I also want to thank Jackson Vickery for making this interview happen. “Fall 2: Deadpoint” is playing in theaters now. Finally, if you want to know more about how films and TV shows are made, click here for additional in-depth interviews in this series.
